There are several different factors in play there. That's not all boiling down to otherwise-equivalent degree-vs-non-degree comparisons.

Most significantly, you're talking about 2008-2009. That was the heart of the recession. Employment was crap all around there. And when money is tight, employers prefer younger hires to more experienced ones because they can get away with paying them less. If the older people actually expressed interest in a low-paying job, they'd probably GET it (which is why you see so many of them working at places like Wal-Mart, where you know your salary before you even talk to the hiring manager, so that issue is taken out of play), but they're probably applying for jobs that would sustain the standard of living they had become accustomed to.

The baloney about better work ethic is in part a rationalization and in part because younger people are perceived to have more enthusiasm because they're not old and tired and jaded, because younger people are more willing to put up with BS from employers because they don't know any better. In actual fact, that discrimination is ageism and it's illegal, but it's nearly impossible to actually litigate about it because basically nobody actually thinks they're ageist (or sexist or racist) -- they just follow their gut reactions and then come up with explanations for why they feel that way.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't advising that you try to hold your first job WHILE you were in school. I agree that's a very bad idea.

What I'm saying is to compare the following two people:
* 23-year-old with a bachelor's degree in English Literature
* 23-year-old with a 6-month certification and 3.5 years of on-the-job experience

One of them will have a minimum of $40,000 of student loan debt and a degree. The other will have earned over $60,000 in the same period and a resume. Even if the degree WERE a competitive advantage, that's a $100,000 difference to make up. How many years will that take?

Who said anything about promoting from within? It's about building up your resume to apply to a better job. What better way to prove that you're worth your salt to a prospective employer than to show that you've been there and done that?

Tech industry trade schools do too. Manufacturing trade schools do too, but manufacturing jobs are dwindling in the face of automation and outsourcing.

I found this for me, but it could also be that I simply suffered from not getting all the introductory new student stuff that happens in first year. Going into third year Uni, as I was, it's sort of assumed you know what you're doing already, and again, it was not just a college to uni shift, but a tiny college to big uni shift.

Money was my reason to start in college, and it amuses me to think that my dad likes to brag more about me getting out of school without debt, than about me having a degree.

* * *

Oh the topic of "what do I want to be when I grow up?" I've thought about this. I thought about it as a kid, in high school, in college, in university, after university, in university again...

And my answer is...I don't *%#&ign know.

Still.

I don't know.

I was going to go get a BSC after high school! No. I'm going to go to an art schoool. No. I'm going to get to that art school and get a degree in commercial design! No. I'm going to be a social worker! No. I'm going to be a librarian! Let's think about that last one.

I have an English lit degree, because I like poetry, not because I wanted to be a poet.

If you have a thought, try it. I actually tried to go for that commercial design degree, but I never made the portfolio I needed to apply to the school. That told me that I wasn't as interested in actually doing the work, as much as I liked thinking about it.

I got as far as applying to the school of social work at my university in year three but was rejected on the basis of lack of personal experience. The committee said right out to me that if I went and got that practical experience, they would let me in, because my GPA was (at the time) so high. I kept putting it off. That told me that general social work (which is where the bulk of the field is) is likely not the job for me, and I would be better off sticking with casual volunteering and such if I wanted to help people.

I'm in library science now because I was laid off from my previous work due to the economy and the opportunity to go back to school presented itself. Like poetry, I like libraries, and it's something I've always had in the back of my mind, just perhaps not as loud or as "cool" to me as the other ideas I had when I was younger, and I'm satisfied with the thought.

Look at me! I sound old!


TLDR:
If you don't know what you want to do with life (I never did) pick something and try it. You may find that while something seems like a good idea in your head, actually doing it is another matter.

Hmm, I guess that means that I should try to try doing something. If I find myself not doing it at all, then move on to something else?


When I was younger I wanted to be a seamstress, but I wasn't sure I'd be dedicated to it.

Then I wanted to be a fashion designer, but I don't like to keep up with the "latest trends." And I don't draw well.

I wanted to be a potter, but not only was that unfeasible, I've only had one potting experience in my life.

I wanted to be a children's librarian because it seemed nice to be surrounded by books for kids all the time.

There was a point I wanted to be a maid, but I decided I didn't want to commit myself to that kind of lifestyle.

I wanted to be a person who rents out houses to people for the sake of free time.

I wanted to be a waitress once as a dream job once, but lack the social skills to do so.

I wanted to create a line of microwave ovens...that felt stupid after researching microwave ovens for a bit x'D.

I wanted to design website interfaces..because I wanted to get rid of those greeting slides that websites used, but that felt pretty unrealistic and weird.


So many things to try and I'm not sure how to get started on any >_<'

Why does being a website designer feel unrealistic? I was 12 when I first started dabbling in web design. The basics aren't nearly as hard as people make it out to be, and if you're a designer that knows how to make interfaces that are not just attractive but functional you can be sure there's a job waiting for you.

BTW, Quiet, sorry for knocking English lit majors. >.>

Because who's to say my ideas of easy-to-look-at sites matched others' experiences? And because I haven't the faintest clue how to turn ideas into reality--it's like thinking about pretty art without knowing how to draw D:

That's okay. I don't know how to make attractive interfaces, either. But it's something that can be learned. You don't have to be good at it right away. You're still a teenager; you're not expected to already be a professional.

And the thing about design jobs is that you don't work in a vacuum. You have clients to work with, who tell you a general idea of what they want, and you have a whole Internet full of examples to look at to get ideas.

And as for turning ideas into reality... That's actually a fairly EASY skill to learn, when it comes to web design. Sure, some things can get technically pretty advanced, but it's all built up from a basic set of fundamentals. It's like math, in that regard.

Oh! So it's like that--because of things like themeforest I assumed otherwise.

As for learning, well, it's like math also in the sense that trying to start and continue learning feels like wandering aimlessly. Although, I guess if I'm not wandering aimlessly I'm not trying?

No worries! I'm first to admit how useless my degree is except to say "I know English and can commit myself to long term endeavors!

I would put my favourite humorous quote here, but I went to look it up so I could get the wording right and found only serious topics. I love this field!

Saying what I actually meant to say, you don't need to commit to anything, really, just try it out. For example, if you want to see about being a children's librarian, see if your local library has any children's activities that you could volunteer for. That's what I did at my local library when I was looking into volunteer work. A youth educator, I am not, but I can handle low-level 'minding' for brief periods of time.

Just today I got interviewed for being a "Homework Helper" at a nearby library and I have another interview for the same thing and/or an arts/craft helper tomorrow :D. (I had applied due to needing volunteering hours to graduate though).

Later I'll be figuring out what library to go to based on my school schedule. I've never worked with kids before so I'm a little excited to try it out.

That sounds great!

If you do find something you like to do, and don't have any formal education in it, some places will actually help out if you show the interest. It's generally assumed that you will stay as an employee though, to be worth their effort. That's how my sister is getting through her accounting degree.

My own job has actually been pushing me to see if there's any education I need to pursue (and they'll pay for it), but it turns out... no, there really isn't; when it comes to my job duties, there really isn't anything left that classes could teach me. >.> I'm at the point of mastery where I have to learn by doing, and education is only valuable for training on specific tools rather than general skills. And the tools I'm working with are essentially the same tools I've been using for the past twenty years, just evolved and fleshed out and built up, and I've been keeping up with them just from day-to-day work.

It's a really weird thought here, after so many years of education, that I'm actually a master and going beyond where I am now requires reaching out instead of reaching up.

Hey Tiro. If you don't know what to go for, try something like a General Arts and Sciences. It gives you a chance to get in there and try out several different things at once, then you can streamline things later based on what you like.

I decided to do a "victory lap" (Extra year of highschool) then took a year off.... which has subsequently lead to me working at my local grocery store for the last 3.5 years... I haven't a clue what to go for yet, either...

If you're not sure, take some time off in between. Earn some money. Travel. Meet new people. Maybe a journey will help you decide what you want to do.

I went to college for three years and all it brought me was severe depression, stress, and a whole load of debt. And I didn't even get a degree at the end of that horrible tunnel.
SO I'm pretty anti-college personally, but that doesn't mean that I'd just go around telling everyone that they shouldn't go. The best thing you can do is evaluate it from your own point of view before deciding.
Do you know what you want to study? Do you have the financial means to study it? Can you handle large loads of stress at once?
If the answer to any of those questions is No than my best suggestion would be to just take a year off and figure things out.
Because I don't have a college degree and I have managed to become a pretty successful business owner and I wish I had taken the time to evaluate if college was really worth it before I just kinda jumped right in and screwed myself over...

Thanks Kita and thanks Debauchery for your responses!

Financially, I learned a while ago that I wouldn't be in debt--because apparently my parents very much want me to go to college and so my father had decided to pay for it.

Stress-wise, I already handle horrible amounts of stress, though I have no idea what college would be like.

What to learn in college, I'm still very uncertain. Seizing on one thing is still difficult, but that might be delving into other issues I have.

Like I suggested, Tiro, why not try one of those basic courses, like a general arts and sciences, or something?

Or maybe a trades school if you like that kind of stuff?

College is not a bad thing in here in ny coubtry if you didnt finish college ylu will be part of the unemployed because most of the jobs here in the philippines recquires college grad or at least have takrn 2yesrs in college