HB2
 

So if you have watched the news recently North Carolina passed an emergency measure House Bill 2, which was made to invalidate Charlotte's ordinance that Trans people could use the restroom of their chosen gender.

They have now stated that you can only use the restroom of the gender that is on your birth certificate. Which is causing a huge controversy nationally, because it has also abolished LGBT Rights. It also demolished the right to sue your employer if you feel like you were terminated unfairly.

Personally I would like the bill to be removed, because it is both stupid and it causing a huge fuss and loss economically in the state that I call home. It also affects some of my friends because they are having the use the bathroom of their birth gender unless they want to risk a felony.

It's not about bathrooms. It's about controlling women (Cisgender or not), and it's an abuse of power.

Lol McCory is not getting elected next year. Its a sad day when Trump disagrees with your politics.

I have been following this story since I work at a public place. As such we are bound by law to follow it. However amusingly enough I don't think our security guard can do anything about the person going into the bathroom.

What bothers me more is the amount of industry that is being lost to NC because of this law. If Google fiber pulls out of Charlotte completely I am going to be pissed. We already lost Paypal which would have been 400 new jobs. If this continues it wont be long before our banks go too.

I also had to explain to my father it discriminates because it takes away choice. Its really more than just a bathroom bill. That is something I don't think that people understand.

Not only that but I grew up in a art school. I have friends that transition. During school they either changed in secluded area or they used the teachers bathrooms. Legally there is nothing stopping a normal man from walking into the girls bathroom. I would also like to point out there is nothing stopping a gay man from childmolesting boys in a boys bathroom.

I just wish the house had worded its bill differently. If this continues I feel like the job loss will out weight a lot of things in NC and with out federal funding for NC schools, we will be left using only state taxes to fund things. And fuck I don't make 15 dollars an hour.

Its kind of an awful circle all around.
I can't wait until there is an official ruling on the Grimm case.

...Lovely...

Okay, so what is being done to reverse this?

Not quite. You're right that it isn't about bathrooms, but it's not about controlling women -- it's about controlling non-heteronormative people, about making it illegal to be different.

These kinds of laws are so limiting, it's ridiculous. Even if there was some kind of validity to them, what about people who were born in Idaho, Kansas & Ohio? It doesn't matter if a person has gone through complete gender reassignment surgery, these states refuse to alter birth certificates.

There are other things that are impacted by these states refusal to acknowledge changes. For example, in Michigan you can't get your gender changed on your driver's license unless you show your changed birth certificate. Talk about awkward when your driver's license shows a gender different than yours.

It's maddening to see things like this happen.

That's not completely unreasonable. There's logic behind not modifying birth certificates. They're supposed to be documentation that a certain event (a birth) happened at a certain time and place, and certain facts were observed at the time (such as the name given by the parents and the fact that the infant was in fact alive -- and yes, the apparent sex of said infant).

You can't get a birth certificate reissued if you legally change your name, after all. No state I know of will do that.

No, the actual problem is that a birth certificate -- a historical document -- is being required at all. Don't fight against the fact that you can't change your birth certificate when the real issue is that an obsolete document is the only permitted form of documentation. Change THAT rule instead.

What would you propose is used instead to prove one's identity?

Uh no, it has nothing to do with women, that doesn't even make any sense.

It's discrimination against those who don't identify with the chromosome that assigned their gender at conception, a way to fight what is considered to be a crime.

Activists against transgenderism believe that it's invalid because the chromosomes or in religious terms, god's design can't be changed. Ergo it's inappropriate and an intent to commit sexual assault for a transgender individual to use a bathroom not labeled for their chromosome gender.

Basically, it's robbing freedom of self which is the most heinous crime on earth.

It's appalling. I'm glad to be living in the LGBT land of the free, California.

@Lawton: Boycotts, "talks", the NC Governor sleeps proudly at night and has decided not to change his mind about the law. There are other cases around the US, that will factor in if NC ultimately repeals its law. It will take a while, and lots of battles in court but: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/20/us...case.html?_r=0

If Gavin Grimm wins his case against a similar law in VA, NC's law is officially unconstitutional.

@Zenkitty/Coda
Why not make a certificate at the time of change and keep both on file?

That's a great idea. Then the next question is how do we get all those conservative states to recognize the validity of the certificate?

Honestly in my mind, if you are going through a self renaissance the document in itself should be valid. You are basically starting life in the direction of your own choosing. As a birth certificate, it is already a legal document. Your doctors, psychologist, can probably validate it that you are of sound mind and body, that you are X person.

At least that is the way my brain processes that idea. Legally its a birth certificate, just not created at the time of birth, just when you are recognized as true gender identity. I don't expect it to be as easy as changing ones name, but it would be something better than nothing.

I agree Poggio. I've just seen too much resistance from states that aren't even as conservative as other ones. There are trans and ally lawyers, doctors, administrators, therapists and government officials who are working very hard to change things, but fear and narrow minded viewpoints make it really difficult.

Yeah, I fear we are going to end up with either Ted Cruz or Trump. Anything red in politics make me fearful not just for LGBT but people who observe different religions,minorities, women... government programs and well wages.

We sure do live in interesting times, huh?

Huh? I had honestly thought that the Republican Party's efforts against Trump split "red" votes so that Hillary had the best chance. (Not that good of an option either, as she only supported marriage equality after it passed...and other things)

But that is getting off topic.

Splitting votes now wont matter once they decide who their nominee is. If it becomes Cruz, there is good likely hood a lot of people in the republican party would still vote for him. If it is Trump most of the people say they will vote for Hilary.

Really? Most republicans I talk to are of the "leave the Republican Party" persuasion in that scenario...or just not vote. They like Trump.

(Sort of feel uncomfortable getting off topic)

I am just going based off what I have seen in the general media. In person I do not talk to people about politics. I know to many people that support, disagree and what not with various leaders. Its been sort of a historical tradition that NC votes red.

Lol then lets get back on topic, because the next president and various lawsuits are actually going to effect if this law stays in place. Cruz is all for it, Trump is against it. So as far as I surmise this law is another religious rule that people are going to keep thumping until its settled.

Pog I know, Fayetteville has only been insulated to the first backlash wave because of the military. Charlotte and Raleigh have gotten the worst of it so far.

They really have screwed up with it now and it is bringing way too much political backlash, when you are on the national news for over a week something is going on.

:O I thought you guys were in the mountains.

I have kind of never been happier to not watch tv, but its all over yahoo and the paper. There are even claims now that same sex couples are getting refused treatments since the new law is in place. Its to early for me to tell if its true or not.

Our culture moves forward three steps and then back two. Hopefully the backsteps won't prevent overall forward momentum.

>Inserts opinion here<

How very true, SparX.

…. I graduated and moved, Alpha lives in Concord now though.

I just have to grit my teeth around people though because they are going on and on about "I don't want a man in the same restroom as my little girl." They can't seem to get past the fact that 99% of people aren't going to do anything than use the restroom, and the other 1% are going to hurt people with or without the law.
One of my friends actually used the women's restroom to just make a point that them being in the restroom of their birth gender makes more of a fuss than when they use the men's restroom.

As another perspective, transgender men are now required to use women's restrooms by NC law.

Yeah, my friend is a trans male. All most started a riot at Walmart when he went into the restroom, let alone when he used the girls locker room in high school and he hadn't even started testosterone then.

Gads. So trans men who were born in a state that won't change birth certificates have to use the women's bathroom by state law, but will be breaking the law by using it.

That's messed up.

Alot of people I know who are ok with trans but don't have much or any interaction with them are like "just build them a separate bathroom!"
Like bro that's not fixing the fucking problem. My friend mark was born female, refuses to do the operation (His personal choice), but that doesn't make him any less the male he views himself as.
I have another friend from elementary school who I lost contact with for 6 years or so, got ahold of them and We used to spend almost every weekend at each others house, doing makeup and sneaking non-parental approved books into there room (there dad was super religious and wouldn't allow anything not religion based in the house, so we would sneak in manga and books about witches and werewolves XD) and recently they informed me they don't claim a gender. They say some days they feel like either or, but more often then not they are just them. So where do they go?
All these things effect people closer to you then most people think and it infuriates me that people are so degrading and rude!
I had a coworker bragging about how he went off on a news article defending trans bathroom rights because he won't feel safe knowing a liar is near him
WHAT THE LIVING HELL DUDE NO ONE WANTS TO TOUCH YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND YOUR A HYPOCRITE WHEN YOU LIE YOURSELF! THEY ARE IN NO WAY LYING ABOUT ANYTHING YOU PRICK
sorry. I never got to say anything to him as I got sent out on a delivery but I have so many words I would like to say .-.
side note- since we live in WA mark actually proposed to his girlfriend on Wednesday! Can't wait for the wedding!

Uh lying about what? I am so curious. Go hound your coworker down and ask them!

Hmm not to make light of things, but maybe I will meet my next lover in the bathroom. I've met some pretty nice trans males, so I don't mind if we have flirtations over the stalls. But we are going to have a hell of a problem if they don't put the seat cover down.

And that is the whole reason in a nutshell why we can't really do anything. We don't check ids at the bathroom entrance its utterly stupid to treat the stalls like its air port security. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it can use the bathroom like a duck.

But if the goose that looks like a duck gets carded they can be convicted with a felony in NC.

That sounded wrong, but I don't know how to put it to sound less offensive.

The most messed up part of that is that THIS IS EXACTLY THE POINT.

They can't constitutionally make it illegal to be trans, so they want to make it impossible to function in society instead.

Lol I understand. There are a lot of grey areas. Some times i over simplify or my brain will explode with the ramifications of things.

I just wish I could have seen the Walmart security check your friends id. And then have to tell people he is allowed in the female bathroom. I am just thoroughly amused by this because it is what the law was supposed to avoid if correctly applied.

Yeah, it is 'supposed' to but in reality it creates more confusion if applied correctly.

mm, actually, that's not true. There are states that will amend your birth certificate for certain types of legal name changes. One example is adoption; both of the children my parents adopted have birth certificates now with their new, legal names, not the ones they were born with.

Oh, it's totally true, because I said "that I know of." :P

That said, adoption is something of an exceptional case. Marriages and cosmetic name changes don't get the birth certificate treatment. And ultimately, it's tied to the same issue -- things wanting a birth certificate as a form of identification, which it really shouldn't be.

actually, I know that in at least some jurisdictions (https://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/?fa=...ic&staticID=13), legal name changes can also be reflected on your birth certificate.

Fair enough, I wasn't aware of that. But still, the crux of my original point stands: If some states want to treat the birth certificate as a historical document, then they shouldn't also treat it as a form of identification, because those two points have requirements that become contradictory in some circumstances.

In NC your birth certificate can be changed, i.e. reissued, with your new name and gender after you have had bottom surgery. Catch 22 is that is can take years to get to that point and most people aren't comfortable with putting their bits on the table since the surgery isn't an exact replica.

So now they are going to possibly put it to a vote. Or put it on the ballot? I think that is what I read in the paper. Or rather let the people vote to see if they still want it or not. In the mean time other cities/states seem to be adopting a similar policy.