Home Remedy Debate
 

At this point this thread has become less about DE and more of a debate on if Home Remedies work or not.

The original purpose of the thread was to see if anyone here has used Diatomaceous Earth to help with their Digestive Track and to let people know my own personal findings with the stuff since I bought a 10lb bag to use on my cats.

So those who are interested read what's in the spoiler, from here on out, this thread is officially a Debate thread on Home Remedies.

Yeah, um... don't waste your money. Diatomaceous earth is efficacious as a pest control product, but beyond that... you're just eating sand. Expensive, fancy sand.

It probably won't hurt you in supplement-sized quantities, but silica is almost completely biologically inert. There's a reason that a lot of implanted medical devices are encased in glass -- glass is made of silica, and silica does absolutely nothing in the body.

Now, if you were a bird, there might be a decent argument that it would help with your digestion, but most avian doctors recommend calcium (such as cuttlebone) over silica because the calcium is more biologically useful and is less likely to get impacted in your crop. But then again, you aren't a bird.

More information: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/dia...-no-thank-you/

What it does for the digestive system, is that it scrapes all the crap left over off the lining and helps it come out. Or something like that.

When it comes to home remedies, I never listen to what the doctors say really. I've found all the home remedies that worked for me, the docs always tell me it wouldn't ever work. (Aloe Vera for example, when I am able to get my hands on the gel to drink, it does help my digestive system a LOT. Unfortunately, my personal aloe plants aren't grown big enough to use for every day morning smoothies, and no where near me sells the gel, and to ship the gel to me is WAY to expensive. The only reason I could afford the DE, was because someone bought me an amazon gift card, we bought it mainly for the cats)

Lots of doctors will refuse to acknowledge that a lot of these home remedies do work because of the lack of 'official studies' done on them. But people do try these things and do post about them on Blogs and Vlogs.

1 teaspoon in my morning drink each day for 1 month to see how it works won't kill me. I just gotta make sure not to breath it in.

The article you posted keeps mentioning "Controlled Testing" and what not meaning it has to be done by scienties for it to be a true fact that it helps with, what ever people say it helps with. I think I'll take the word of someone who's put the stuff in their food for years over people who refuse to do these 'official' studies because they don't believe it helps. o3o

Then again, I bought this mostly for my cats, I'll only be having a tiny bit out of the 10lb bag we bought. I'll see for myself if it is beneficial to my health. If it doesn't do crap for me, then it will be a kitty only thing to help with worms and other parasites.

When I get it, I'll be sure to post updates on any changes I may see. Will it help my digestive track? Will my stomach hurt less when I have a bowel movement? we'll see. Tests are the only want to answer these questions. OvO


Edit:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...46/unknown.png

The article you posted is basically someone who hasn't tried it, and they even states they don't know if it works or not. And that they pretty much only believe in Clinical Trials and Testing. Stuff that a lot of home remedies never get.

The problem is that there's a complete lack of evidence. The person hasn't tried it because there's no indication that it COULD work. There's no proof that it's done anything for anyone, ever.

There are some home remedies that actually do something. Aloe vera actually does do something, for example. (Maybe not everything its proponents claim it does, but it does do something.) There are others that are nothing more than placebo. The biggest risk with home remedies is that the lack of evidence also means that you don't know what could go WRONG, either. I mean, considering that diatomaceous earth KILLS insects by tearing into their bodies, do you REALLY want to shove that into your digestive tract? There's no proof that it's even SAFE.

The fact that "food grade diatomaceous earth" even EXISTS is a sign that someone out there is wanting to swindle people out of their money. Someone is charging MORE money for it because people believe that it works. There's an entire industry that thrives on exploiting people's belief that "natural" is somehow better for you than things that have been thoroughly studied and improved upon.

Another big risk of quack home remedies is that they make you believe that you're doing something for your health, so you stop trying to do stuff that ACTUALLY helps.

I can't afford stuff that actually helps xD And DE isn't expensive either. I'm not going for it because it's natural. I'm going for it because of the countless testimonies I found online.

Also people have to take in the point that everyone's body is different. What may work for some, won't work for others. So I'm taking that risk as well. (we all take that risk when given meds from that doctor. I use to be on seriquel when I was younger, the psychiatrist put me on it to make me sleep, it never harmed me. Mom was put on it a few years ago for a different reason, it put her in a state close to a heart attack. The pharmacist told her to stop taking it right then and there.)

xD Have you seen the prices of DE? Its cheaper than DeWormer for animals! I wouldn't be buying it if it was like 20$ for a 2LB bag and 40$ for a 10LB bag. That is expensive. but 20$ for a 10LB bag isn't that bad of a price. Especially considering that there are health foods out there that are WAY more expensive. Pretty much the price of 2 packs of hamburger thats 5LBs.


There IS evidence, the Vlogs and videos on youtube that have people recording themselves, mixing it into their water/juice/smoothies and drinking it. Some do weekly vlogs and some do bi-weekly.

Just because the testing isn't done in a 'controlled' area, doesn't mean there isn't evidence out there that it works for people. =p

I have digestive and bowel problems too (IBS). I'll keep an eye on this thread, interested to see how it goes for you, it seems you're being careful enough :s-smile: I don't know if I'll have access to buy it for myself but the more informed about options the better!

It's more evidence than what the scientists have. ;p

A lot of vloggers and bloggers take this stuff seriously. And the comments from others who were inspired to try it, help as well. If it didn't work, the people inspired to try it wouldn't comment good stuff, they'd be flaming the vlogs and blogs instead.

No, the scientists have quite a bit more evidence. It's just negative evidence, not no evidence.

Coda the article you posted stats that no tests have been done, if no tests have been done then where is that 'negative' evidence coming from? To have negatives, tests need to be done, and yet even the FDA has stated that they haven't tested it them selves.

The FDA says they need funding to do said research and until then take it at your own risk. The reason they aren't shutting it down is because of the tests that the groups who did short term research had good results (and because of those results the FDA has filed it as GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe)), but for it to get FDA approval as a health food, long term research needs to be done.

Gally - the only way to see if a home remedy works, is to try it yourself. Aloe Vera is a home remedy that has been shot down by 'science' for ages. It's recently been given light and they are finally started to do 'proper' studies on it. But before then, it was just another 'cult' following. But even now, most doctors still refuse to allow their patients to use it.

Marijuana could also be used as an example. It had a cult following for its health benefits but because official testing hadn't been done back then even doctors would tell you not to use it. It was a home remedy for pain and other things, very few cancer specialists would tell their patients to get weed to help them with the pain and nausea. Now, its becoming a legalized drug. But even now that its becoming legal, there are people who still refuse to believe that it helps and are fighting the legalization of it.

Its been used for thousands of years for many things but only now is the science proving what we already knew.

Home Remedies start somewhere. Those Cult followings, if they get big enough, the stuff they use will get tested.


Edit: FDA document for DE being GRAS


Dangers of taking DE internally
Benefits of DE
both of those are from the same website.

And the group that sells the kind I got, even states:
They aren't tricking people into thinking stuff. They're telling it straight.

Even the site that sells it tells you not to inhale it. Tt's a very fine powder but its sharp. There are people who put this on their animals fur coat on youtube, the backlash they get for not wearing protective gear AND not protecting their animal's mouth and nose as well.

Some people seem to be fine with the slight irritation its caused them in small amounts, with me.. not taking that chance, I'm wearing my face mask o3o.. my asthma + that stuff in my lungs, no thanks. x'D

I'm gonna put it in my morning drinks and that is it. Some places says you can put it in soups, no thanks.. one place said to substitute some of the flour in some baking recipes.. that doesn't sound like a good idea to me.. >->,

Smoothies and Juice only for me. (Cat food and litterbox for kitties) Only in the morning as well. 1 Teaspoon inside the drink. That's all I'ma risk.

So far only that one seller site is the only one I trust, the other ones seem meh and it looks like they add stuff to theirs.

When it comes to home remedies, I do my research. =p


I just hope it helps my kitties more. x-x they're the ones that need it most.


MJ might not be the best one to use, but if you take out the politic part, people still refuse to believe that it helps with pain and other things. Even with all the scientific studies done. There will always be non-believers no matter what. Home Remedies will always be like that. There will be others that the government will want control of as well. In the end, they still started out as home remedies.

The only thing you can prove by trying a home remedy yourself is that it doesn't make it worse. If you take the home remedy and you get better, it MIGHT be because the home remedy worked... or it might be because you got better on your own... or it might be because you were paying attention to your issues and were doing other things that DID help... or you might not actually be getting better but you think you're getting better. And you get excited about the times when you do get better, so you tend to forget about the times it definitely didn't work.

A single experiment doesn't provide data. To make a proper test, you'd have to substitute some similar product and test THAT too -- but you'd have to make sure you don't know whether you're getting the real stuff or the similar product. If you don't know which it is, and you get better, and it WASN'T the real home remedy... then the home remedy wasn't responsible for you getting better.

And that's the problem. People DON'T do these kinds of controlled experiments. But MOST problems DO go away on their own. And people come to incorrect conclusions as a result.

My wife's grandfather died because he ate flaxseed as a home remedy for heart attacks.

Please, don't take the risk.

I thought I saw something about this on my facebook but didn't really look. As far as I knew, Diatomaceous Earth is for pest control, and not something you want around smaller animals because it can affect their respiratory system (it would have to be a very small animal but still...). My understanding was that it plugged up pores and such in insects and what not, starving them of oxygen or something. However it actually works, I'm not sure it's something I would ever use in a diet.

I have a slew of health problems though, so I'm careful about anything I try, because I don't have a normally functioning system and I take pills that like to argue with me. No grapefruit (Grapefruit diet) or St. John's Wort (sometimes kidney remedy) or echinachea (cold remedies) to start.

As to the intestinal scrubbing thing, isn't that what seeds and fiber already do?

I'm not opposed to home remedies and there are a couple that I actually use but some of them can really be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing, and anecdotes aren't solid evidence.

On the doctors and home remedies thing, I've encountered this a few times, but doctors and nurses can't medically recommend anything that isn't an approved treatment. At least it's this way in Canada as far as I know. A doctor can be fine with certain remedies, but they can't officially prescribe them if there hasn't been testing and such done and the process approved. This might in part be because of government paid health care. Since the government is footing the bill for a lot of this, it wants to know that the prescribed treatments are effective. There are homeopaths, naturopaths, etc. around that you can see, but at your own dollar.

It doesn't have to be very small animals, because the problem isn't that it causes choking or suffocation. The problem is that it shreds the delicate alveoli of the lungs. That works on creatures of any size, including humans. The damage happens at a cellular level, even damaging the DNA, which causes cancer.

In the US, doctors are allowed to recommend any efficacious treatment. There's not a playbook or something that they're required to draw from; they just have to have evidence to suggest that the treatment has been shown to help people. (Some insurance companies might refuse to pay for some kinds of treatments, though.) They'll get in trouble for recommending treatments that AREN'T known to be effective, but that's a different matter. So while you're more or less right, it's not as strict as it sounds.

I know doctors can simply state their opinions on such things, and it's generally assumed that current approved medical things can be out of date because of how long it can take for government wheels to turn. I've heard nurses and doctors say things like "well I can prescribe X but it's not what I would do" because X or Y."

I've heard doctors say that too but usually the circumstance is a patient asking for a particular treatment that the doctor isn't familiar with or doesn't know enough about to meaningfully recommend.

There is the pesticide kind that is treated with chemicals and there is the food grade kind that you can consume or still use as a form of pest control.

Yes it is dangerous if you breath it in, but once you mix it with other things, it clings to those other things and is safe for eating. If it weren't safe for eating the FDA wouldn't have it as GRAS. They just can't label it a health food until more tests are done.

Seeds and Fiber haven't helped me at all. It made it worse actually.


Coda - >-> I've been paying attention to my issue for 10 years.. This is how my doctors help me. "Here have anti diarrhea pills, that's all it is!" but its NOT just that, its constipation and normal bowel movements. It HURTS every time. My latest one says "It's just constipation, and yea constipation hurts" .. No.. it shouldn't feel as if someone was slowly cutting my intestines to shreds each time I take a dump. And I know the difference between constipation and diarrhea.. I'm pretty sure that constipation ISN'T when its runny and you can BARELY make it to the toilet on time...

So I literally 'Can't' try official medical methods until I find a doctor who uses his ears for work and not for decoration.

I've tried adding more fiber to my diet, that made it worse.

Aloe Gel WORKS for me but its too expensive for someone who only gets 300$ food stamps a month for 2 people. So that's out of the options.

Everything else is once again, too expensive. And because the doctors won't listen to anything I say, I don't know what I have is called.. One person says I have IBS (they themselves were diagnosed with it so they know the symptoms) then I have someone else who claims to be a Nurse say its not IBS its something else but didn't give it a name.

So the only thing I CAN try for the moment is Diatomaceous Earth. So there will literally be NOTHING else I can do to add onto what I'm trying.

I'll probably be part of that group of people who say "it didn't work for me at all, so this is just gonna be my cat's de-worming method"


>w> Better stop taking that Tea and Honey when you aren't feeling too good.. it's a home remedy there for it doesn't work. Stop putting Aloe on boo-boos, it's a home remedy. Cause home remedies don't work. Acid Reflux problems? Stop drinking that Apple Cider Vinegar, it's a home remedy there for not gonna help.

Just because its a new thing, doesn't mean its bad or it won't work. New just means you have to be cautious. Which I think I proved I have been by doing all my research.

Pesticides don't have to add chemicals to diatomaceous earth. They use it directly. Some products are pesticide MIXES, yes, but that doesn't mean that diatomaceous earth isn't a pesticide on its own.

The FDA recognizes it as GRAS for purposes such as skin scrubs and toothpaste, where the micro-abrasive properties of the stuff are the entire purpose of using it. But just because it's safe to accidentally swallow a small amount of toothpaste doesn't mean it's a good idea to intentionally consume more of it -- the GRAS rating is specifically about it being safe to use it in the way that was evaluated but it makes no guarantees about it continuing to be safe if you go outside of the recommendations.

And yes, as you said, a GRAS rating doesn't say anything about it being effective, just about it being not likely to kill you.

Given the description your problem may actually be too much fiber, especially insoluble fiber. You need a certain amount of soluble fiber in your diet, so don't cut it out entirely, but loading up on extra fiber when your problem is that your stool isn't binding together in the first place is going to result in having to pass more loose stool instead of solving the problem -- as you've found out the hard way.

You should also cut back on fried food, chocolate, caffeine, and carbonated beverages, and you should be careful with too much fruit or honey. These all make diarrhea worse, and it's speculated that the rise of IBS and IBS-like symptoms is a result of the increase in these things in the typical American diet.

I was just pointing out that my doctors don't listen when I tell them that my stomach hurts real bad regardless of HOW it comes out. When I was younger it just started out as just pain with the runs. Now its pain any type of bowel movement. It's not just the runs, I could have the runs today then tomorrow FULL blockage. Then for the next two days it'll be normal bowel movements.

Almost everything I eat, irritates my stomach.. I'm practically on a soup diet at this point. I can still eat chicken but I'm picky on how its made. I gag on it if there is skin, cartilage, bone.. if it has a slimy texture.. I tend to get skinless chicken breasts and make soups out of it.

Add stress on top of everything, I'm crawling in pain >->,

Until I can find a doctor who listens to me and properly tests me to find out whats wrong, I'll be using home remedies. Will home remedies work for me? I don't know. So far the only one that has worked is too expensive for every day consumption, which is what I need it for.

One thing I've learned from living in California with a family full of people with health issues: If you want your doctor to do something, you have to take matters into your own hands. Not by ignoring the doctor and finding alternative remedies, but by being in constant contact. Demand more tests. Force your doctor to help you. If you feel like the doctor is ignoring you, it's probably because you haven't given him the right kind of information to help him actually inform his diagnosis. Have you tried keeping a diary of what you eat and how your stools come out?

Yes, a good doctor will put forward the effort to ask the right questions, to follow up, to figure out the problem. But given that you're probably going to a cheap clinic where the doctors are overworked and overloaded, you can make a mediocre doctor do good work.

Diary keeping is pretty much what I had to resort to in some cases. I'm doing it now to weed out what is giving me problem and what isn't, because I've been having bouts of illness for long enough that don't seem related to the same things.

In some cases, I've just had enough tests that other doctors have found things by accident. The CT for my oncologist found the scar tissue in my abdomen that is likely responsible for my persistent nausea. The ultrasound for my urologist found the gallstone I didn't know about which now probably explains my icky reaction to high fat foods. That will be irritating later on.

IBS according to my doc is med speak for "yup, you've got a problem with your gut." That's what I was diagnosed with until we were able to narrow it down to the specific issues. IE: scar tissue, tumour, and slow stomach motility. Those three things need three different approaches to fix.


Remedy Stuff, sort of.

So far, for the nausea I use pu'erh tea unless it's bad enough that I need pills. Also drinkable yogurt helps.

There are pills for slow motility but they don't work so well for me so I use coffee now and then, and watch my intake of certain fibers. Pork is an issue, any leafy green (except kohlrabi to a point), and cabbage. Curiously, green beans have a funny fiber structure that makes them easy to digest. I can eat those to no end and now grow my own.

The reduced fiber of course means constipation can happen. I address that with a specific type of laxative (lots of laxatives are fiber based which will backfire in my situation), or more coffee.

Speaking of coffee, my gut is bloating because it didn't like something about my tuna sandwich. I shall go make a cup.

The tumour was fixed with chemo but it's mangled my intestines a little bit, and the scar tissue can't be removed without surgery that might well create more scar tissue so I'm stuck with those problems.

To actually comment on home remedies, I'm open to anything. Seriously, my mother took to me every doctor, other doctor, alternative health and healing practitioner she could think of to find out what was wrong with me as a kid. What I think is important though, is that people don't assume that these things are 100% safe or always benign. There are simple herbs I can't take because they react to my pills, and there are diets and things that can be dangerous for the wrong type of person. "Natural" also does not equal save. Some things and naturally toxic. Sometimes, "raw" is bad because the raw form is a problem. It's good to check out and investigate new things but jumping on a craze can cause a lot of trouble.

This. So much this. I don't have a problem with alternative remedies if there's actual evidence behind them instead of just a bunch of people talking about how great it is. You've got to filter out the buzzwords ("detoxify" is 100% bogus for example, there's no such thing, and anything that purports to treat multiple unrelated problems is probably fake). You've got to treat it like an actual drug that acts by a specific chemical mechanism and not a miracle cure. Treat everything not explicitly prescribed by a professional like a skeptic -- go in telling yourself that this thing you're about to try probably isn't going to do anything, because going in expecting it to work will confound your results with the placebo effect.

I mean, my wife used St. John's wort for her depression before we were able to get insurance to cover seeing an actual psychiatrist. Putting a baby aspirin on a canker sore does provide relief. A tablespoon of honey is just as effective as over-the-counter cough medication in children between 2 and 12 years old, and it's actually safer (but don't give honey to infants under one year old). So yeah, I'm not categorically against alternative remedies.

Wow, DK. That's pretty darn rough and you have my sympathies. From the sounds of it, I wonder if you don't have some sensitivity to something small and everywhere, like gluten or soy, for example. I have lots of relatives in that department. Unfortunately, finding out things like that tends to take a lot of money and time.

Have you ever had allergy tests? Some allergies can relate to food. My sister in law has problems with nickel, and that transfers to lettuce (not sure how). She is also highly gluten sensitive which sucks because it's in damn near everything.

Out of curiosity, how do you handle potatoes? That's the go to for my sister-in-law and I now when we have our distinct gut problems. Plain boiled potatoes. Cheap and plentiful, and they have enough nutrition in them to cover most needs (of course, I've possibly got enough Irish in my family background that it's a natural affinity. ;)). Elimination diets can help you find out if there's a food that's bothering your gut. Start with nothing but potatoes or rice for a few days, then add one new thing back in at a time until you start reacting again. My mom did this for a while. Might be something to try, and maybe find out if the problem is diet or something actually wrong somewhere with your digestive system.

Gally - Yea when I get constipated I get the loose stool as well. Constipation pains feels like I'm shitting a baseball with rusted nails sticking out.. x-x the watery stool that comes after makes the pain go away.. =w= I like the watery stool, so soothing...

Quiet - I'm allergic to carrots =w=, its terrible... I puke them back up.. Mom always tells this story of when she was pregnant with me, she'd crave carrots beef and potatoes. Only thing that would come up was the carrots... doctor told her then to stop eating carrots that I was allergic.

That info was never passed to my foster parents and they fed me stuff with carrots in it once, I was sick alll night. x-x

Then when I met my half sisters when I was 8, they bought baby carrots and ranch dressing... They didn't know about my allergies to them, and I was too young to understand why I got sick that one time with the foster parents.. I ate some.. bleh x-x


I can't have V-8 my stomach gets upset when I do, I can't have beefstew... Campbell's Chicken Noodle soup has carrot bits in those, can't have.

Potatoes I can have! I just don't like them sliced and cooked and I don't like fresh mashed potatoes.. =w=, I have to have the box kind.. the textures are soooo much different! I don't eat much potatoes now though.. I prefer them cut in cubes and eaten raw (I prefer most my veggies raw.. I can't stand them cooked, i can't stand banked fruit either.. x-x the textures.. ugh..) But mom refuses to let me eat them like that.. she'll make french fries and eat them all herself and I don't like how she does home made fries.. so I don't eat those..

If I don't like the texture or taste of something I gag. Which pisses people off.. >-> my aunts always complained about my 'picky eating' now I just eat what they give me and do my best to not barf x-x

I've asked for allergy tests but my doctor won't do them. Allergies change over time but he says "you already know what your allergic to there's no need to do these tests." What if I'm allergic to eggs now? And Milk?! (though I can have Ice Cream no problem and we make our mashed potatoes with milk no problem.... Yogurt I can still have as well)

I can't do raw veggies. My stomach can't handle it, as much as I like them. Not sure if raw spuds is a good thing. They do have and acid that they make (supposedly good for getting rid of warts). I think instant potatoes are still just dried potatoes anyway, so it's not like there's too much weird about them.

I just keep an eye on how I react to things and adjust what I do accordingly.

Raw potatoes are bad for you. They contain a chemical called solanine that's most concentrated in the skin (especially around the eyes) that breaks down in the cooking process. It'll give you an upset stomach and in high enough doses can be fatal. Never ever ever let animals eat raw potatoes; their smaller body mass means they don't need much at all to reach a lethal dose.