I didn't notice that about Disney...
 

More specifically the underlying themes or imagery of their movies you never noticed as a kid. I was listening to some Disney songs (again) today. The idea to make this thread came to me when I was listening to "Hellfire" from Hunchback of Notre Dame Like...dang man! As a kid this movie was about a deformed man finding love and acceptance. He befriends Esmeralda, the Captain, and becomes a Hero from a horrible "Christian" man who burns down parts of Paris to find her in order to keep Quasimodo in a tower. This scene was really above my head somehow back then xD

most disney music from before he died is pretty messed up if you pay attention

Well...in the original story, no one saves the girl...and the hunchback joins her corpse, just laying there until he dies as well. So Disney toned it down a bit.

Hunchback of Notre Dame was after he died though...although yes before he died they can be messed up. More specifically I think of the Black Cauldron. That is the darkest one ever...and I'm told by someone the only movie where blood is shed? Never tried to confirm this.

Can you give me an example aside from the obvious I just mentioned?

@Yokuutsu: They toned down and tweaked (for better or worse) several stories...like all of them. I heard this from someone else. Did Quasi die by lying there (so the book had a romantic ending) or was he also mortally wounded at that point so it was more brutal as well as romantic? I am assuming the book was romantic. I am thinking of Romeo and Juliet ^^;

To my knowledge, he was being a creepy necropilliac and just laid there until he died of thirst/hunger. He did not even try to save the girl at all. So it's kind of crrepy.

At least that's what I've heard.

And I do know that wasn't the only one, but it's the only one that came to mind.

Ah Disney...the things I could tell you.... There's a lot of books about the studio and the man, and it wasn't all mice and glass slippers.

As to a few things already mentioned:
Blood is rarely shed in a Disney movie, while violence is not taboo, that was to an extent. This is why when Disney was looking to purchase Studio Ghibli rights they put out Princess Mononoke in hopes that it would be too bloody for the company's taste. That being said, you'll occasionally see a bit of blood in a few other Disney films, but not much, a cut, a scratch, maybe a drop.

The other thing to remember is that Disney movies are all based on fairytales, and they often have to 'dumb them down' to make the really children's stories. Cinderella? The step sisters cut off part of their feet to fit the shoe, and birds remove their eyes on the way to the wedding. Snow White? The prince is a bit of a necrophiliac in that story. Sleeping Beauty? A kiss isn't what woke that princess. Little Mermaid? No happy time with ehr prince, she's sea foam at his wedding. So, really, the stories are all a bit...modified by the time Disney adds in it's own bit of twisted.

Lyrics, yeah, Hellfire is one of the more risqué songs out there. Even when I watched it I was like O.O Wow disney said 'hell'.

I also love that Disney's not so subtle issue with women is always manifested by a dead disney mom. It's a rare disney movie with a living mom/queen.

Disney and its subtext makes me lol so hard. Apparently, the word 'sex' shows up A LOT in Disney, but they claimed it was actually 'SFX' (hok)
some of the lyrics in Hunchback are pretty extreme, and I was really surprised at the violent death of Scar in the Lion King

but... oooo disney.

Looks like "SFX" in The Lion King to me since the bottom part of what would be an 'E' is missing.

Disney has been griped at for lots of things, frontrunners being Racism, Patriarchy, maintanance of the status quo, etc. There's a phrase about Disney that makes a good point I think that being, "the frog only turns into a prince if he was a prince before." To their credit Disney (the company) is getting better though. Mulan is argued as their first move into active female protaganists and for once she's not after a husband, though she gets on in the end anyway. ;). And she has a mom!

Things like The Lion King and Aladdin reference the whole status quo thing. Challengers to authority are bad guys, ie Scar and Jafar. Add in the racism card with Jafar looking dark and non-cucasian and hero Aladdin who is suspiciously white looking. All is well in the end when the usurper bad guys are offed and the proper person assumes authority or is granted authority by someone with a right to do so.

I personally thing Disney got a bit gunshy after The Lion King with the gripes about it being too violent. The older movies are much more dramatic really, like Maleficent's death scene in Sleeping Beauty. There is blood there but it's purple, and I do think that Prince Phillip is among the more manly of the succession of Disney princes ;). Older kiddy stories were outright nasty sometimes, but people tended to die a lot more of things that modern medicine considers minir so death wasn't as big a shock, I don't think.

Disney does mangle a lot of stuff but I suppose it's not necessarily worse than other movie interpretations of stories. Folk tales like Sleeping Beauty are up for grabs though, given there are no original pieces to go back to. Fairy tales like The Little Mermaid that actually have an original literary source do get messed up though. Take pretty much everything from The Little Mermaid and reverse it and you pretty much have the original story. King Triton doesn't run things, his mom does. The Little Mermaid (not named in the story) is the only one of her sisters that doesn't decorate her garden with human things from shipwrecks, and she waits patiently until she's 16 when she's allowed a special trip to see the surface. She's not after a man either. Prince Eric is a guy she sees and happens to like. Her real goal is an immortal soul, which Mermaids don't have. They live for 300 years then die and all that's left of them is sea foam. The Little Mermaid though, is offered the change to get an immortal soul by wandering as an air spirit for 300 years. She peeks in windows and watches children and if they are being good she smiles and a year is taken off and if they are bad she weeps and a year is added. Lengthy convoluted method of telling your kids to behave.

All that said, Disney was a pretty amazing guy, if a little quirkey. The technology the came up with was fancy stuff, like the multi-layered camera with different painted images that gave an animated film a 3D look, ie. the beginning of Pinnochio.

Surprised me when I learned that Disney actually did a collaborative work with Salvador Dali. Never heard of Disney as a surrealist but apparently cartoons about a talking mouse were something of an oddity at the time.

-is being educated by other Trisphites-
O:

I don't think I'll be able to retain half this stuff but it's fascinating for sure! x3

@Quiet: Aladdin looks white? ...Um no they all look Arabic to me...with exception to the Sultan. My sympathy for him came from his background. Where he was a good person Jafar who presumably clawed his way up to position from a similar poverty Aladdin was gave me sympathy for the villain as well. Strangely I thought this as a kid, and who knows maybe I'm really stretching to reach that conclusion.

And yes, Prince Phillip is the most manly of princes I think. He doesn't look like a full adult but he has gusto to actually try and kill something. He was surprisingly useful in escaping and killing Maleficent in Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep (if that counts lol).

On the plus side Disney hopped aboard the environmental conservation train and racial acceptance with Pocahontas.

LOL well Phillip was only about 19-20 in Sleeping Beauty, so no, not a full adult yet.

And...don't get me started on what Disney did to the story of Pocahontas...oh god.... Talk about taking a story and spinning it on it's head.

And I do have to laugh, in the first Aladin he wasn't as Arabic looking as he was by the end of the third...or was it fourth...movie. Though by then Jasmine was a giant eyed freak of nature O.O

The gripe against Pocahontas was that she supposedly looked too Asian for a Native American. From what I've heard of the actual events, it's a pretty miserable story.

Arguments against Aladdin included the American accent and lack of beard and the fact that he was lighter skinned than Jafar, or something like that. In the original tale he was apparently the son of a Chinese merchant ;). (That is, if the details in the game "Tales of the Arabian Nights" are correct).

Never thought about things like that, Jurinjo. I think because I usually try not to read too much into a movie and at the time when I first matched most of them it's not something that would have really occurred to me.

Disney gets lambasted for a lot of things, but the do pay attention and try to remedy things. Look! Prince Naveen doesn't even have blue eyes! ;).

Uhm, highlights of my gripe against Pocohantas:
Disney side
~She's 18ish
~She falls in love with John Smith
~She can magically speak English(yes, I know it was so the movie wasn't beyond stupid, but still)
~She wears a snazzy deerskin dress and has long flowing hair

Historically
~She's 12-13
~She is fascinated by the Whites, but John Smith is in his 30s
~Communication between their cultures was super slow, often both cultures didn't have words/concepts for what the other talking about
~As a child she would have had a small patch of hair, and run around in a breech cloth and that's about it.

Most, yes, done so that Disney could actually show it. However, I lived in VA for years and had to learn that stupid story in every grade, I hate when they muck about with real history. Stories are fine, they're just a take on a specific message.

Dont forget going to England and dying of tuberculosis over there. Apparently there was an advisor or such that was named Percy. He appears in Disney's rendition...as a dog.


This is not from the most reliable source I think, but I heard that Greece demanded an apology from Disney for Hercules. I certainly wouldn't be surprised. I was tempted to walk out of the theater but there wasn't really much else to do.

Yeah, that's the sequel... sequels always make me want to beat my head in. I was just nitpicking the first one LOL At least the second one has the right guy in it!


Well, uhm...if Greece did demand an apology they'd first want them to change the Fing name! In Greek mythology his name is Heracles, Hercules is the Roman version of his name. Beyond that...they don't have much to complain about, their mythology has been twisted so many times to end up in some really bad(PJatLT) movies, plays, stories and tv shows.

Reading this thread has made me sad. There is a documentary called Waking Sleeping Beauty and its about all the good Disney movies made between 1989 and 1994. And how Beauty and the Beast was the best movie they made before their amazing song artist died. I suggest any one who wants to know about Disney and its struggles watch that movie.

Beauty and the Beast was among the first animated films I think to be nominated for Best Picture (Bambi might have been another but I'm not sure). I love that movie, and the music in particular.

I imagine Greek myths get tweaked all the time, expecially since there isn't any one official version, but I think Disney went beyond that right into butchery. Core traits of the gods were changed, certain myths were crossed (I'm pretty sure some of the monsters Hercules killed were actually killed by other heroes), the reason for the labours was changed, (not sure if they were really labours at all, been a while since I've seen the film. Only watched it once).

If it wasn't "Hercules" I don't think I would have cared. It worked as a Greek themed mythical story, more or less. I don't think it would have caused many problems if they gave their hero a different, unknown name rather than Hercules.

There was a recent documentary on the history of Walt and the Disney company that was really interesting, and covered much of what happened while Walt was there. They did a lot of phenomenal stuff, but there are always going to be gripes about some things. Disney does make stuff for kids and they aren't the only people that censor material from certain stories to make them presentable for a younger audience, but I do think there are some things which just shouldn't be editted in that way. It's not just Disney that does that but being really big and really easy to spot I imagine they take the most hits over it.

Do you know where I can see this documentary for free? ;D

Alias I do not, my friend bought it because she is such a beauty and the beast fan, I would say try netflix as we all know anything Disney is not label to escape their grasp for free.

awww =(
My parents have netflix but I'm waaay to self conscious to try and watch downstairs. I'm gonna get that "REALLY?" reaction from everyone. The only Disney fan in the house :C

pfffffft, put on some home made cardboard mouseketteer ears, pop up some popcorn and just smile benignly at them when they ask.

I am a huge Disney fan.

But that is because I don't CARE if they change an original story and only take basic ideas.
After all, I don't think any Disney film has ever claimed to be true to its source, has it?
The movies are all (well, all traditional animated movies, not that 3D stuff) very very good in my opinion.

I don't care for the accusations of patrotism (is NOT negative), rassism (only a racist/paranoid person would care, imho), violence (ever watched Watership Down?), etc.

After all, a Disney movie does not erase the original story.
Just because Disney made The Little Mermaid does not mean that the original book magically disappears. Everyone can still read it and enjoy BOTH stories.
Disney movies were never meant to be close adaptions, were they? So why complain?
I just don't understand it.

I enjoyed most disney movies, only problems are with some of the newer ones....I swear im not racist, but i just didnt like the frog movie, though the original story isny my favorite either. Tangled was great, though i twitched when they pulled the whole Shrek "bad guys are actually good guys who are misunderstood and like singing" bit -_- ive only seen Pocahontas once a long time ago so i dont remember much...

@Lost: I did not like the frog princess either. my friends did not seem to realize the reasons I did not. It has nothing about it being the black princess movie and more about, well damn Disney banked on musical movies and I felt like it just didn't deliver. I could watch the old disney movies many times, but Tangled and Princess and the frog I have only watched once through.

My mom had the same opinion of Frog Princess. It just didn't feel up to Disney's usual standards as far as musicals go.

Oh, and it wasn't Patriotism, Kotetsu (haven't heard of that being a Disney failing), it was Patriarchy; entirely different concept, and one I'm not going to get into because it leads to a train wreck of politics.

I did like Princess and the Frog. Because...I like the fact that it is the girl finding her prince, but not being completely dependent on him and the like.

I took it as it's meant-a little kid's movie that can entertain older people too (like when I went to see the Lion King in 3D....I was like the only one there without a child lol). But no one else has to like it-I like some weird movies and I can admit it.

Treasure Planet is one of my favourites, my stepsister and I watch it all the time. I know it is also a book unterpretation and I should be mad at is I suppose but the changes to setting and time are radical enough that I found it really fun and didn't even bother comparing it to the original story, even though I don't remember it all that well. I'd like to see Disney go with more stuff like that.

I also think it was just well done. :)

I wish Disney would play the Thirteenth Year again on their channel. That was a good movie....I remember when every month they'd have a new movie every month...and I'd like it....and I think normally they were movies with real people in them...on their channel only-not in theaters or anything.

Princess And The Frog: What did people have an issue with this exactly? I personally think there were worse musical music in previous ones. There was a phase in the 90s where it seems music and animation quality dropped dramatically for awhile. "Other Side" and "Dig a Little Deeper" were my favorites in the movie. Although I wish Mama Oddie's song was more balanced Naveed-Tia wise.

Tangled: Interesting I could actually bother to watch this one again. True they pulled the same bad guys are good guys bit from Shrek but also it's a Pixar-Dreamworks Film. Not Disney. The music wasn't like...super amazing. Doesn't lack too much quality to me. Characters and Storytelling were solid. Mother Gothel is my favorite character. She is kinda static but her manipulation, despite her weak points, are just...wow. I don't exactly expect sophistication like that bothered by writers in a movie like this.

Treasure Planet: hmm...I need to watch this again. I recall relating very well with Hawkins and of course being a fan of sci-fi and stuff I thought the world set up was very neat. The scene with Hawkins and Silvers in the dingy reminded me a lot of Titan A.E. In a good way.

Thirteenth Year: I liked it the first time I saw it. But having rewatched it recently on Disney Channel it isn't all that great in my opinion. ;>.>

Well, I'm not saying it's great.....just saying that you can't say the story was wrong or didn't follow something. It was an original movie not based on anything historically or not.

There were plenty of adult things in Disney films if you go back and listen to what they say.

Oh Disney and the things you do..

I'd start in on them but it's probably not a good idea. :p-evil:

I know this post is like two years old, but... False on both parts. It was only a single spire on the cover of the box, and it wasn't INTENTIONALLY drawn that way... and that was the priest's KNEE -- being male, I'm pretty sure I know that you can't get a "stiffy" that far down your pant leg.

You know.. my one ex told me about that rumor but i still never saw it xD I looked up how many images... maybe i'm just blind ouo,

In the new DVD version, they still edited out that part due to the "stiffy" accusations.

I remember the multiple occasions of the word "sex" i drawn out multiple time done in a sneaky way (I.E in the lion king with the smoke/mist blows into the mist and some say the word sex is on there, and the poster for tangled her hair spells out sex oTL) but that's it as far as i can remember.

I just never cared but studies shown that subliminal messages don't work. So why put the effort into something that doesn't work

HOLY CRAP THIS THREAD IS 2 YEARS OLD!!!! O-O

http://cinemaroll.com/animation/6-su...-disney-films/
http://listverse.com/2009/05/10/top-...d-in-cartoons/

and there are MANY MORE

This happened to me too, not just with Disney but with other stuff, coming back to watch movies as an adult I noticed things that I was oblivious to as a kid, but the Hellfire scene from Hunchback always kind of seemed more "grown-up" to me than stuff out of other movies. Even as a kid I couldn't help but think, "That is sort of messed up"

But I had to hand it to Disney, I didn't expect them to ever go that far with their animated movies, they're all about that "family friendly" vibe.

There are legitimately tons of sex-related claims on Disney. Though I think cartoon network and nickelodeon had more. Take Rocko's Modern Life for example. He worked for a phone sex company.

Late Disney movies have always been riddled with dark themes, but they're surprisingly light compared to most of their original counterparts.

I mean, at the heart of Beauty and the Beast there's a story about a young woman who falls in love with a man despite cosmetic imperfections and narrowly misses losing him to a jealous admirer who leads a lynch mob to murder the 'beast'.

Cinderella is about a young woman who is forced into slavery after her father grows ill and after one stroke of good will from an old woman falls in love with her prince and regains her wealth.

The Little Mermaid accurately depicts fear of adversity in that Ariel's father will not allow her to swim to the water's surface for fear she may be caught by the humans he believes to be below the mer-people.

And the Lion King accurately depicts a jealous relative hell-bent on stealing the thrown he feels he is entitled to and will go to any lengths to obtain be it murdering his own brother right down to his nephew.

:UUU

I love Disney.