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I have a question ( Answered and being worked on )
Relationship-wise. Not necessarily about me or anything to do with me, it's just in general though there are specific details. It's just something I've pondered about.
Would you encourage someone to dump a person if they're.. say.. manipulative? They guilt trip to get their way a lot, even with petty things, trying to get undivided attention from the person they're dating. They wouldn't hit or get physical or anything, just like.. they're generally kind of difficult. Would you tell someone to dump someone like that? For example.. (A) wants (B) to play a game with him/her. (B) gets distracted easily, sometimes wanders to do other things, and (A) gets really upset about it, guilt trips (B) all the time about it, and tries to manipulate (B) into doing what (A) wants. And it happens frequently. Knowing that (A) is generally selfish, and he/she demands a lot of attention/time spent with him/her and mostly has an attitude 24/7.. And (B) is a nice person who's had a hard life, who is the kind of person who takes (A)'s manipulation in stride though sometimes may get upset about it.. Would you encourage (B) to get rid of (A)? Would you also consider (A) a bad person? Like generally, not like on par with rapists or anything. Would you be friends with (A) if you had a choice? Or do you think (A) would be a bad friend? Would you think (B) has better options? Would you encourage (B) to explore those options? Please give me lots of answers. I want a lot of opinions. |
In my opinion, I would need more of a back story. I'm friends with a person who is like (A), demands attention from his/her love, manipulative and a hypocrite. This person however only acts like this with his/her love, not with his/her friends. Completely different with his/her friends. I would only really encourage (B) to leave (A) if it got physical. Not to be a jerk or anything but it's none of my business if (B) dates (A). I didn't appreciate it when people encouraged me to break up with my ex because they didn't like him. It wasn't something I wanted to hear, so I wasn't about to do that to them. I have suggested to my friend before, "You know, so-and-so doesn't treat you right." but I stopped because if I don't like it why would my friend? Actually, one of my friends was dating a girl who treated her like crap and was a cheater. I merely told her I felt she wasn't a good person, I was being honest in how I felt. But I didn't tell my friend, "Dump her, she's garbage and you don't deserve that." because if she wants to date her, that's her choice. I know people will disagree with me but I would only really get involved if it got physical. I have encouraged others to look for better because I have been encouraged to look too. I would only encourage it if my friend was ready to date again and if s/he is single, not still in the relationship. [/2cents] |
i couldn't say, is person b happier /with/ person a or /without/ person a?
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This sounds like a... complicated situation, but not uncommon... It's hard to figure out where to start, but...
(A) is not a bad person for that. No one is ever bad simply for wanting things, even if they tend to be manipulative to get them. Because there's more to these situations than just the surface. What is it that makes (A) need all of this attention? Is it just how they are, how they've always been, or is there some bigger issue there, left untouched and grown to manifest into this behavior? Are they aware of how they can be, or do they brush it off with excuses? Maybe most importantly, if they are aware of it, are they bothered by it? Is it something they try to change, but can't? Or do they feel like they'll never be able to change it? ... For several months, not too long ago, I was being emotionally abused by one of my friends. I loved her dearly, and probably always will. She would guilt me into doing what she wanted, when she wanted, just how she wanted it. If I wasn't good enough, or wasn't fast enough, or wasn't enthusiastic enough, we would end up fighting. Fighting, of course, meaning she would get angry at me, I would be left not knowing what to do or say, and my silence (or poor wording) would keep her in a downward spiral that never ended anywhere nicely. She never meant for any of that to happen. She knew exactly how bad of a friend she could be, and hated herself for it, but never could change it. The situation between us was... complicated. In the end, it just did not work. She was left more depressed than ever, and I've... well, I'm not the same person as I used to be. I always believed there was hope for her to improve. And she was getting better. I'm sad to say that I wasn't strong enough to carry on with her. Even with how much I've been hurt, I wish that I could have been, because even people who seem impossible to be friends with deserve a chance to better themselves. If (B) feels like they can handle the struggle, that it's worth it to be with and help the one they love, and if there is no physical abuse and the mental strain isn't causing permanent damage, no one has any right to insist that they break up. No one. |
Chi: Thanks for your input-
(A) is like that friend of yours; only like that with (B). (A) has expressed his/her regret for doing that, but doesn't seem willing and/or able to change it. (A) is not a physical person, so he/she would not physically abuse another, but (A) could be taken as verbally abusive. He/she had also been told that by others. If one of the two, (A) or (B) had asked this themselves, would your opinions be different? Since of course, outside parties really have no business in it, but if one of them had asked for help in this situation, what would you say, if your answer is different? Fleshing them out with backgrounds might give people some bias, so I'm trying not to do that. xD; littlechocobo: I wouldn't be able to say, since this is a hypothetical, faceless kind of question. xD But I would say (B) is happier, because he hasn't been with many others before. He/she may actually have a chance to be happier with another, if he/she didn't think he/she had to settle for (A), possibly. Gallagher: That is pretty much exactly how I mean for (A) to sound. He/she does express guilt and regret and his/her attitude, but even despite his/her trying to change it, he/she never does. So it makes this a bit complicated, as you said. ( I can't really say what would make (A) like this since it could be any number of things; it's a generalized situation, really. xD; ) I think it mostly leads to, would it be better for (B) to rid himself/herself of (A) so (B) could find even better happiness without the ties of (A)'s attitude? |
well if they are happy /regardless/ of if they can do better than i say leave it alone
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in fact there were a couple asop fables saying the same thing, it could always be worse and if you are happy enough leave it be
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Everyone in this situation will be biased. (A) for themselves, not wanting to lose someone they care so much about, but also wanting (B) to have as much happiness as they possibly can, because for dealing with all of that, they certainly deserve it. (B), from what I can gather, is likely to think that it's worth it to deal with some attitude, because there's so much more to (A) that more than makes up for it. Friends, of course, will likely side with those they're closer to, and in this situation, I think only (B)'s would be of any worry.
Everyone is likely to be against (B)'s wishes, but it's (B)'s choice to make. If they leave or if they stay, no one, not even (A), has a right to force. |
I would think so as well ( as in leave it be if (A) and (B) are happy with each other ) but I also read in a lot of different places that maybe (B) has been blinded into thinking he/she's happy. If that is the case, and (B) is hiding his/her unhappiness, should (A) end the relationship for his/her sake?
I'm taking into consideration what Gallagher said, about (A) not having a choice in what (B) thinks, but at the same time, (B) may not be happy, but appears so in order to make (A) happy. If the situation was like that, would it be good or bad if (A) insisted on breaking up? ( (A)'s feelings, as the abuser, should be looked at as irrelevant here. ) |
Don't give background if you're uncomfortable. xD; I've caught myself saying, "I wouldn't be friends with so-and-so because they act like such-and-such!" but then I have a similar friend who is like that. It honestly depends on what their background is like. And I can understand that too. I was really attached to one of my exes because my family life was kind of harsh when I was a teen. Not as harsh as others but it got pretty bad sometimes. I digress though. With experience I don't demand attention from my significant other, however, I do feel that almost everyone appreciates that attention they get, forced or not. If (B) or (A) came to me and said, "I'm looking for some real straight to the point bluntly honest advice." I would give it to them, but also suggest to maybe not take it to the heart as much because it's not my life it's that person's life. When my sister said things about my past relationships, and she said plenty..., I didn't tell her to shut up or I didn't want to hear it. I simply stated, "I get what you're saying and I respect your views. Thank you for giving me advice but in the end I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do." If they ask you to be honest, bluntly honest, then be that way. They can't be mad at you for giving them what they asked for. |
Chi: I get what you're saying; I actually agree for the most part. Most people usually just tell you to ditch people like (A), and I would keep believing answers like that, if it wasn't complicated. Want to widen my perspective on it; not many people try to understand the abuser, since the abuser is presented as evil and all bad. Which would also be fine; if it was black and white, a decision, if one came up, could be made within split seconds.
Anywho.. Anyone can answer this question also ( it's not just for Chi, lol ) If you were (B), what would you do? Just try with the vague information; I know it's not much, but it's the most I can give without making up specific characters, lol |
In a case like this, I'm not all that sure that anyone's feelings should be irrelevant. If (A) cares enough to think about breaking up for (B)'s benefit, then that says right there that those feelings are real and they matter. Of course, there's the possibility that (A) could fake things like that just as well as (B) could fake happiness. What's called for, to me, seems to be many long conversations, not this black and white, yes or no, stay or go. Life isn't lived in extremes like that. If (B) cares, they need to own up to their feelings, good or bad. If (A) cares, they need to open up these talks (even if nothing in their behavior changes right away) instead of making choices that could have them both unhappy.
I agree with Chi. If an honest opinion is asked for from someone acquainted with more than hypothetical, they should give it. If I was (B), I would be doing what I could to find out what's causing the behavior. Giving up on people is not something I'm known for, even if I don't go out of my way to spend every second with them. But, I'm the first to admit that I'm a bit different from the norm. Until I know what's going on, breaking things off simply wouldn't be an option at all. |
I wouldn't pretend to be happy. I would tell (A) how I felt if I was (B). I'm very honest and open with people, if I have something to say I will say it. And I would hope if I'm being honest with (A), (A) would be honest with me. I'm not going to pretend to be okay. In perspective if I had someone who was like (A) I would try talking to them about it. I told my ex before about the way he treated me if I felt I was being mistreated and he would change or at least try his hardest. In my eyes, if you're trying to make an effort or at least trying, I'm not going to leave you because of that. But if I say, "Hey you know, I feel hurt by what you're doing." and the response is "Screw you, I'm not changing." then forget that, I will not consider being in a relationship with you. If you're willing to try, I will help you if you ask. Or just help if I know you're struggling. Effort means a great deal to me. Admitting to your faults or problems takes a lot of courage too. It seems that maybe (B) and (A) need to express to each other how they truly feel? |
Thanks, you guys, for your input. ^^ You've been helpful
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welll i have done that personally he is not good enough for her and A in my personal experience is a jealous selfish tool i could not even tallk to my friend at last con because she did not want him going off about anything it was sad and i actually encourage the breakup for her own good
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Neon: ^^;; I actually think so too ( though lets keep this genderless please. Neither A nor B should be thought of with a specific gender in order to keep things unbiased ).
Honestly, I should say here that I am A, and my boyfriend Kai is B. I always regret the things that I say ( even while I'm saying them ) to try and get him to pay attention to me, or do things with me, and I get terribly upset when he leaves, even for short periods of time, so I make him feel guilty; there is no excuse for it. But it's like a conditioned reaction. I know, still no excuse. It's amazing how he has dealt with my crap for as long as he has. I tried to ask this as vague as possible, because I knew I had friends here who would be biased since they know me, but not that side of me, since I only show it to him. All abuse is evil, and I'm one of the abusers; I know this. I want to change it, but no matter how hard I try, it just goes back to being the way it is. I'm showing Kai this thread so he can make a decision himself, but.. yeah. Like I described before, he doesn't seem to care about my attitude, and has been reassuring me instead, which I don't deserve. x__x; Bottom line is I'm abusive and he doesn't seem to mind.. which doesn't make it right. The general response though, was to talk about it, so I'm trying to talk to him about it to see why I'm like this and if I can patch it up to where I don't act like this anymore. I know nobody wants to hear excuses from an abusive person, but wouldn't it be better for the abuser to be fixed instead of continuing to abuse others? Or maybe I'm simply a lost cause. xD;; I'm trying, though.. Although that doesn't make me a good person, just to try. I'm still abusive, and that in itself is evil. |
I'm not going to crucify you for your choices. I'm sure you have a reason for why you act the way you do, everyone does. And I'm sure if Kai is willing to help you, you can fix it in time. Just don't give up. Much love and good luck. <3 |
Thanks, though honestly, I don't think I really deserve much slack for this. ^^;
Kai's being nicer to me than he should as well; I really don't think I'm getting any punishment for my behavior, which isn't right, to me. Dx |
Try to think of it positively? You're very lucky? I'm not sure. :c I would never encourage this but you could always "punish" yourself. What I mean by that is if you feel you're getting too attached, step back and just stop. Find something to busy yourself. Play a game, watch a movie, draw art, dance, go out by yourself, hang out with friends. 0: When I found myself getting attached to my boyfriends, I played a game to busy myself. If that's too hard maybe set a goal for yourself. "I just talked to him 5 minutes ago, lets see if I can go an hour without calling him." Don't put yourself down though, that's not going to help you. It only encourages more behavior like this. You'd be slowing the process instead. ): |
I don't trust myself to have the self control yet, so I've asked him to block me every once in a while so I don't give in and talk to him, lol.
Kind of hoping he actually does it. x__x;; Otherwise, it's like I'm getting off with a slap on the wrist, and that's it. I need it to be burned into my personality like a stop sign, whenever I'm about to do something abusive; if I remember when someone had punished me bad enough, I'll stop before I do it. I need that. x__x; Edit: He agreed to block me for 1-2 days every now and then. ^^; |
I'm trying to wrap my brain around the fact that someone can admit their weakness and is actively trying to improve themselves.
As someone who had experienced emotional abuse, I think I'm rather impressed by this. Those who I knew to be abusive would never admit that they were in a million years. It does take a certain amount of courage and . . .just wow. I can't stop being impressed. Of course there is a different between being emotionally needy/nagging and actual mean spirited manipulation. It's hard to tell with what I've read. |
With the admittance that it's you:
I fully stand by my previous statements. Everyone deserves that chance to improve themselves. Not just once, but a thousand times over. So long as you're breathing, you can change for the better. |
Belial: Thank you, but there's really nothing to be impressed by with me; I've always acknowledged it, and I always try to warn new friends before they get to know me too much.
Also, I can't be sure if I'm mean or not; I don't think I have that intention, and I know I'm probably the neediest, most annoyingly naggy person on earth. No matter what kind of abusive I am, isn't the outcome the same though? So my excuse is irrelevant. I don't get a say because I'm abusive; that's how it should be. People trying to understand my side wouldn't be punishment for my actions. Gallagher: Well, I have to admit that this makes me even worse because even though I try, it never works. I don't really think I should have help from anyone else because that would be kind of.. unfair to others. Thinking I am the bad guy, therefore I need to fix it alone. But I can't find methods that work without having to ask for assistance. I may just be stuck with myself being ridiculous, and I also think because of that, I should break it off with Kai and disappear. xD;; If more than one person agreed ( or agrees ) with that, though, I would. Because I do not have a say, as the bad guy. I should not consider my own feelings here because I've hurt his too much. That's how I've been seeing it. |
But you have made the first step in admitting it, most people who are abusive would never do that.
But if it was between someone who didn't care that they hurt people and someone who did care and was trying to change that, I would see the last one in a more favorable view. The first step is always the hardest and you've already done that. Self improvement is never easy, not in the least, but getting starting is the biggest hurdle. You know you aren't done but you have to give yourself a tiny bit of credit. It could be hugely motivational in order to continue trying. Because a lot of people would just give up, and you haven't. That is something I would say you should be proud of. My ex would never admit that she hurt me. She never saw herself as an abuser. |
Weeeeeeeell, the way you've been seeing it is wrong. imo.
People are rarely able to change things like that on their own. They want to, other people want them to, but it just. Does. Not. Happen. That way. Thinking of it as so strictly good guy and bad guy is, sorry, immature and extremely short-sighted. This is more complicated than that. It's always been more complicated than that. I suppose I should add, when I was being abused, things didn't break off because nothing changed. They broke off because it was getting worse. Long past spending every possible minute. Long past trying to find ways for it to get better. Short of circumstances like that, which you really can't be in given this very thread, I wouldn't be able to justify ignoring your feelings. I guess I see it as any other addiction, though. And whether the addiction is drugs, sex, or attention, those who want to change deserve the help to do so. Also, very much agreeing with Belial here. |
Well, to be totally honest there's another problem here as well. Though I didn't want to bring it up because it makes Kai sound a little bad, when the fault is not his. He's tried to help me before, but then I have times where I'll feel so bad for doing what I do, that I pull back over and over, and nothing got done, really. Because of that, I think he may have given up, so when I bring these things up now, he'll either ignore it or it'll turn into somewhat of an argument. Because his experience is he can't get anywhere with me. I've done that so much, so I don't think he'll be willing to have an extensive talk or a few with me about it. Which is my fault. So I've been like.. walking on eggshells about it. I want to try again, but I know the trust is probably not there, so I'm stuck. I don't want to bother him any more than I already do.
So although I've talked to him a little bit, he kept changing the subject, and I don't have the feeling that anything was accomplished. x__x;; I also have vague ideas of why I'm so bad ( because before, I wasn't so much abusive as honest and I didn't need his attention so badly; I was comfortable with myself and confident in modest amounts ) but I'd need to have a serious long talk with him about it... and also I'm afraid he may just forget all about it in a few days, and it'll go back to how it always is. Or not believe me. Or think it's not a big deal enough to cause my behavior. I wouldn't blame him for any of these. It's just difficult to get to the next step if he doesn't stick with me a little.. Which, feels horrible of me to say because I still really do not think I deserve help. x__x;; But.. that's just me. I'm really sunken into the statistics about this; you know, how the abuser is nothing but evil and it's just black and white. No matter how big or little the offense is, it's the same and the abuser must be the worst; we must not sympathize - that kind of thing. |
Anyone who thinks only in black and white is ignorant. Life is never in just black and white. Bad guys sometimes wear white, good guys sometimes wear black.
Don't let your fears control you, otherwise you'll be in a prison of your own making. And that can stop you from doing a lot of great things. I can't say what you or he should do as I know both of you will handle it differently. If both parties truly want to be together they will work with each other even if one isn't perfect. If one of the partner gives up, no amount of words can change that. Sometimes when the trust dies, everything else dies along with it. However, again, that does depend on the willingness of both partners to work on the relationship. Even if he doesn't stick with you, you need to learn to be a "whole" on your own. Dated a guy online, he never really paid attention to me, I felt more like a friend and he always refused to use my phone number. I always thought that was strange. I dumped him because I wasn't happy and I would like someone I was dating to talk to me at least once a week. Many things that are desirable and worth having don't come without a struggle or a fight. Loss never comes without some kind of gain, but if you never lose, you don't gain anything either. I hope my words make some kind of sense, it's my train of thought and I wanted to get them out before I was distracted again. (I hope that didn't sound rude, I do get distracted sometimes at the worst moments) |
I once dumped a boyfriend because he was clingy, possessive, and did the whole guilt-trip thing for attention. His intentions were good, he merely didn't want to lose me, but he ended up pushing me away with those behaviors anyway because that's just my personality. I don't take that kind of crap from anybody. If anything, I'm the person who will be doing the guilt-tripping and the manipulating in the relationship. I couldn't take it, but I do it myself, and perhaps that makes me a hypocrite. But in the end, it all boils down to personality and how a person handles the way another person treats them.
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Thanks, you guys, for the answers. I've been holding it back, and doing okay with it, I think, though I'm not sure how it looks to Kai right now. I suggested that whenever he's busy, he'll block me so I cannot have a chance to bug him ( because I don't have confidence in my own self restraint yet ) and he agreed, so we'll be doing that. Hopefully I don't screw it all up. ^^;;
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